Our secret is out!
Women have broken the code!
Apparently some diligent sleuthing women have scoured ancient literature and long forgotten lore and discovered a long lost secret method to winning a man’s heart. Fortunately for us men, they are still a bit mystified and wary of the concept and have, so far, only dared each other to dabble with it.
These Indiana Jones-ettes apparently uncovered the secret in a two millennium old book by old Saint Peter, of Bible fame. This secret method is so effective it can make a believer out of the most disobedient husband, and so sneaky that he can be won without a word.
The two millennium old forgotten spell:
The secret was found in the first sentence of the third chapter of Saint Peter’s First book:
“In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.”
How to do it.
It’s so simple. Basically women decide to actually keep some critical parts of their own marriage vows! Just: “To love, honor, and obey” & “forsaking all others”. So, Saint Peter claims husbands’ hearts can be won, and husbands can be transformed into loving God-following men if their wives just hush their mouths, quit being sluts, and honor and obey their husbands like they vowed to. (and like the wives may have initially done to get a husband to marry them)
How does it work; miracle, magic, sorcery, voodoo?
Here is where the women are mystified: apparently most now think this is a divine rite that has been imbued with supernatural power. However they all suspect their own husbands are likely immune to this voodoo, so most won’t bother to try it.
I however believe that if wives actually just gave their husbands this part of what wives led them to believe they would be getting when they married them, the husbands would be so awestruck that they would seek to thank and praise the wife’s God and find out how they too could get in on her God’s extended plan for them as a couple. Basically, if wives would just quietly quit defrauding their husbands of what they’d already vowed to them, their husbands would naturally be overcome with “divine” love. I’m not even sure if there is much magic to it, so much as just a normal and natural reaction to being shown divine love as intended by a woman who was designed for a man, to be his reverent helper and faithful mate. When women truly follow God, so usually will their husbands. Just like the history of Adam and Eve. And when the woman leaves God’s ways, so often, her husband leaves God’s ways also.
Men are made in the image of God and may experience a yearning for their Heavenly Father. Women are natural defilers. The key to building an upright civilization is firstly controlling the women’s defiling urges. Because men are a bit more upright by nature, our righteous God wisely has put the men in dominion over the women. To equalize women with men is to invite certain defilement of society. We are to keep women in holy subjection so that an upright civil society can flourish that gives glory to God. Patriarchy is really a simple and beautiful model of God’s perfect design. Don’t let Satan slander Patriarchy with horror stories of a few wicked men who were far away from God. Our history is absolutely full of great fathers who got us through tough times. Good and godly fathers are who this world needs to have ruling within their families. That’s God’s design, I’m just sharing it with y’all.
A good article, which showcases your gift of humor. Of course, all the solid females who intuit these truths don’t need them spelled out, and the idiot wimminz who desperately need your sage advice will never take it.
My marriage vows didn’t include the word “obey”. We chose traditional vows rather than writing our own, but we had “love, honour and cherish”.
What women want is pretty simple too: we want to be loved and made to feel like the most important person in our man’s life – after all, the Bible tells a man to leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and they will be one flesh, so God obviously designed women to feel this way. God designed us women to want our men. Marriage works so much better when men heed this.
Welcome Boxer,
Thanks for your kind words. You were the first person to encourage me to start a blog. And your continued encouragement helped me to finally get around to doing it.
I guess if the wise folks already know this stuff, and the fools will never listen, like politics, we’re often battling for the impressionable minds in the middle.
But I don’t pitch my argument towards those in the middle, so much as I’m just marching down the information superhighway in my own Patriarchy Pride Parade. Putting it all out there for everyone to see. Making Feminists wretch. Loud and Proud, too rude to be subdued, we shall overcome. We Shall Overcome! LOL
When we do hold the first annual Patriarchy Pride Parade, I’m going to need some of the women who lurk this site to make the sandwiches for the after-party. You wenches won’t be lurking at the parade, you’ll be serving your homemade sandwiches and refreshments.
Ace,
My marriage vows didn’t include the word “obey”.
You shouldn’t have admitted it this quickly. I could have won some money betting on that.
What women want is pretty simple too: we want to be loved and made to feel like the most important person in our man’s life
LOL Not true. Been there, done that, going through the resulting divorce.
Notice how quickly Ace switched the Topic from What Men Want to what she as a woman wants. She did not even bother to comment on the Post.
Oh, but I did, Bee! This part right here: “It’s so simple. Basically women decide to actually keep some critical parts of their own marriage vows! Just: “To love, honor, and obey” & “forsaking all others”. So, Saint Peter claims husbands’ hearts can be won, and husbands can be transformed into loving God-following men if their wives just hush their mouths, quit being sluts, and honor and obey their husbands like they vowed to. (and like the wives may have initially done to get a husband to marry them)”
That is part of the post, is it not?
Most women these days don’t have the words “obey” in their marriage vows. In fact, in every single wedding I’ve been to, the couple wrote their vows themselves and didn’t even use traditional ones, like hubby and I chose to.
I’ve never been a slut in my life (was a virgin when I married my husband), I “hush my mouth” when it’s appropriate to do so, and I honour the vows I made before God to my husband. I always have. But there was a time when that wasn’t enough. It’s enough now; but it wasn’t always.
I know a number of truly Godly women who’s husbands don’t want a bar of serving God. But then, God does not promise that men will turn to the Lord just because their wives do. He said they may. But they may not, too. Some men do – I’ve seen it. But some men don’t, and I’ve seen that too.
I do find it interesting that a blog whose target audience is men, has this post sarcastically aimed at women. Wouldn’t it be a better idea to teach men how to do their part to make their marriages happy, rather than say “our marriages suck and they’re going to stay that way because this is what our women should be doing and they’re not therefore us poor helpless creatures will be stuck in miserable marriages for the rest of our days because there’s absolutely nothing we can do to turn things around, we can only achieve happiness by forcing our wives into submission”?
Sharkly – if you truly made your wife feel like the most important person in the world, you would not be getting divorced. I can promise you that. No woman would ever divorce a man if he treated her that well.
And one more thing before I go and cook dinner for my family…. let’s just say you go to all this trouble (and endure all the resulting mocking) and organise a Patriarchy Pride Parade. Is the best food you can come up with for the after-party homemade sandwiches? Wow! What an exciting party!! Dude. You need to get out more!
Bee,
1 peter 3:1-2 has got to be a sore subject for Ace. Ace has not submitted fully and reverentially to her husband, has written openly disrespectful and slanderous things about her husband, she admits to publicly wearing solicitous pants her husband does not approve of, she has kept herself and the kids separated from him, for months, as she saw fit, yet doesn’t let him hear the end of when he walked out for a week. She’s got a horrendous excuse for everything she does in contradiction to the Bible and her husband, and she likes to argue her point of view. Basically, she stubbornly refuses to be the woman in 1 Peter 3:1-2 who may win her husband without a word. Is she submissive, quiet, loyal & modest, and respectful to him? Not hardly! And during their marriage her husband has, according to her, lost his faith, as opposed to being won to it.
If I were her, I’d change the subject too. It is a lot easier than admitting sin, repenting, and going all in for God’s way. Ace is fearful to trust God and her husband fully, she fears punishment.(“abuse”) because evidently she loves her perishing physical self above her husband’s eternal soul.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
Her husband isn’t the only one not following the Lord, but at least he’s honest with himself about it. Ace needs to be fully transformed before she may transform her husband by a meek and quiet spirit perfected in God’s love.
Ace,
There is a popular meme that Feminists don’t make sandwiches.
You say you want to counsel, but seem unable to understand my wife has an intimacy disorder that makes her respond opposite of most women, in addition to having three other diagnosed disorders. She literally and habitually returns evil for good. And she was the exact opposite prior to marriage, but began “distancing behaviors” immediately upon marriage.
You seem to fail to grasp how Feminism directly breaks down God’s pattern of patriarchal marriage. In the Bible God tells the woman to submit before he tells the man to love. There is an order to how it works. If the woman is in rebellion, then true love looks like correction and discipline, and not romance. However the rebellious woman rebels against the correction also, and Feminist society has taken all of a man’s methods to correct his wife away, while cheering on her disobedience.
Just to correct a few misconceptions: no I don’t wear pants (or any clothes) that my husband doesn’t approve of. That pants example I gave you was one of the ways I obey him. He didn’t like me wearing them out of the house so I stopped. No big deal. 99% of the time I wear skirts/dresses that come to at least mid-calf or longer.
My husband has abandoned his family 3 times; the 3rd time was the time I left, got my own house, and wouldn’t let him move back until he’d kicked his drug habit. But at no time did I keep the kids from him – he had open access to them at all times. They stayed with him every second weekend and he saw them most days, including coming for dinner twice a week. I was heavily pregnant and didn’t want his dodgy mates around my tiny little baby. The fact that those mates are no longer in our lives and most are in jail, tells you what kind of exemplary people they are.
The reasons my husband lost his faith is nothing to do with me – it’s due to his mother and our little boy – but that is all my husband wants me to say about that. He will come back to church again though, I’m fairly confident of that. In the 17 years we’ve been married he’s fallen away and returned several times.
My husband has no complaints about me, so it doesn’t really matter what you think, does it? And as you neither have fellowship with me nor know me in real life, you have no idea whether I’m serving the Lord or not.
Believe me – I know the damage women can do to men. One very good friend’s life has been absolutely destroyed by a lying bitch of a woman. He’s now in jail for a crime he didn’t commit. So believe me – I know how evil some women can be.
After reading through my psychology textbooks (my degree is in child and adolescent psychology, not general) I have a fair understanding of intimacy anorexia and other intimacy disorders. Part of it is from trauma. Part of it is control. It can be treated. But it won’t be treated by this whole “women is evil, feminism is bad” bollocks. That’s going to make it worse. That is where the whole control thing comes into it. Hypnosis would help, if you have access to a good hypnotist (my brother is a hypnotherapist and does stage hypnosis so I know quite a bit about it).
Just as there are bad women in the world, there are also bad men. Blaming women and feminism for all the problems in the world doesn’t work.
The reason God told men to cleave to their wives and be one flesh, is because this is His perfect plan for us. Two becoming one. A team. Helping each other.
@ Sharkly,
Thank you for explaining that to me. It makes sense now.
Ace,
I have wondered myself about whether hypnosis might not be the simplest way to help my wife’s behavioral addiction.(since most “churchians” only cheers her on in her rebellion) I don’t know too much about hypnosis. I have heard radio adds for hypnotists that help people quit smoking, and over eating. However I seriously doubt my wife would willingly submit to hypnosis, and I’m not sure if any hypnotist would perform it on her surreptitiously, for her own good. I think it could be both helpful to modify her thinking and behavior, and to get to the root of the matter, so as to be able to address it honestly and directly. Right now she refuses to even go with me to any joint marriage counsel even though she agreed to go, to fool the court, which was about to order her to joint marriage counselling in the best interest of our sons. She refuses to ever see anything as her fault, thus all her false accusations. She also has a deep fear of “being flawed”, and reflexively blames others for any manifestation of her intentional withholding of all forms of intimacy. She also does not want to give up her behavioral addiction, or even admit she could have any issue, like so many addicts she is still in denial that she has a problem. I actually think that her fear of intimacy, and whatever hidden traumas caused her fear of intimacy, are likely the main contributors to her GAD, MDD, AND PTSD. I have hope that if we could actually treat the root problem, her other mental and emotional health symptoms would clear up. She could literally once again become behave like her “other-self” that I fell in love with and married. And I think she could also then restore her relationship with her one sister who refuses to have any contact with my wife and the rest of her dysfunctional family. I believe my wife’s mom is likely intimacy anorexic, and her mother was likely that way as well. I believe my wife’s father to have schizoid personality disorder. He was forced to marry when my wife’s mother claimed to be pregnant by him. Anyhow, since neither of my wife’s parents actually want close intimacy or want to give it, she grew up without even any mental framework of intimacy and she thinks that families not sharing any intimacy and people not wanting any intimacy is perfectly normal. She literally believed I was a sex addict just because I want sex after having been denied sex for over a year. When I went through two complete psychological evaluations and was found to be free from any type of psychological disorder and any sexual disorder, she still refused to believe the Doctors and had to be convinced by her lawyer to drop her doubly disproven accusations. She apparently had wanted to go to court and insist that the Doctors were all lying about me not having some disorder which she could then blame as the source of her intimacy anorexic behavior. In any normal world, the church would step in and help to straighten out our marriage, if only to help our sons grow up in a God following home. But I can’t get those useless cowards to say a single helpful word to my wife, they’re so blinded by their cunt-worship that they cannot conceive of a marriage problem that isn’t 90% or more The husband’s fault. And I don’t think my wife will ever be willingly prevailed upon to get joint marriage treatment with me, when her dysfunctional family, dysfunctional church, and the dysfunctional friends she surrounds herself with are all telling her to continue fighting against her husband over her imagined grievances, and “abuses”. Unlike you, Ace, my wife can’t tell any tales of physical confrontation, drugs, or shady friends. She just spins my efforts to get her to quit her intentional “distancing behaviors” into some sad tale of psychological abuse and insistence on absolute control, when in fact she is the one completely controlling the relationship using the withholding of intimacy, sex, the court system,
Sharkly – The only church I am familiar with is my own and it’s certainly not affected by feminism. Unlike most churches, our preachers are homeless, unpaid servants of the Lord so there is literally nothing in it for them to preach watered down scripture. They teach the whole truth and nothing but the truth, because they don’t make more money if they have a bigger congregation. So I honestly have not experienced feminism in the church and my experiences of the church assisting with marital problems and separation have always been with the goal of reconciliation and “are you doing your bit?” There is no excusing behaviour from either party, but encouragement to own our faults/mistakes, repent, move forward together. So I truly can’t relate to these “apostate churches” you speak of because I don’t know anything about them.
Yes feminism is entrenched in the courts here (and I assume in most western countries) and the stupid Me Too and Believe Women movements have done an incredible amount of damage. Our friend had evidence to show he was innocent of the charges against him, including blood tests, but the woman was still believed in court because she was a very convincing actress and courts are conditioned to believe helpless, distressed women (even if they’re faking).
Yes hypnosis would be able to get to the root of the control part of your wife’s issues, but it’s impossible to hypnotise someone without their cooperation.
God’s antidote is not slamming women and trying to force them to be inferior. God’s antidote is love. Peter gives the prescription for how women are to love their difficult husbands, but husbands seem to be quite clueless as to how to love their difficult wives. It’s not “washing her in the water of the word” and it’s not always “discipline” (although that has it’s place sometimes) but these are the only two things men seem to say.
Ace says: I do find it interesting that a blog whose target audience is men, has this post sarcastically aimed at women. Wouldn’t it be a better idea to teach men how to do their part to make their marriages happy …?
If men were causing their own problems that might be the case, but I’m convinced that is largely not the case for most Christian men. Feminism is foolish and directly opposed to God’s ways. Feminism makes both Women and men behave foolishly to the degree that they accept its teachings and disbelieve the truth in God’s word. Foolish women actively destroy their own homes.
Proverbs 14:1 The wise woman builds her house, But the foolish tears it down with her own hands.
Men can only prevent this, to the degree that they can control their wives. The Duluth Model declares that any attempt by a man to rule over, manipulate, or control his wife, is some form of “abuse”. It is a wicked pillar of the Feminist emasculation of men, families, and society as a whole. However, a Christian man can lose everything in this life for attempting to purify a rebellious wife in accordance with the Word of God. I have lost many things in life, and unknowable opportunity, because my wife and I have been focused in a constant struggle since our honeymoon. A needless struggle that my wife need not have started, and defiantly kept going just to destroy all intimacy in our home. And I am also well aware, that with further false accusations I could easily lose the rest of my life to a rebellious harpy, just like Ace’s falsely imprisoned friend. It takes a lot of love and faithfulness to keep trying to reconcile when the false imprisonment of Ace’s friend currently seems a far more likely a reward for my efforts, than my stubborn wife’s repentance. I can’t imagine that my wife is the only fool who has ever destroyed the home of a loving God fearing man who only ever wanted what was best for his own. It seems far more common than anybody, steeped in Feminism, can comprehend, and we all, including myself, have grown up thoroughly steeped in ungodly Feminism. Trust me! I know some foolish and shiftless men who lost the genetic, and mental lottery, and are selfish, boorish, and despised, yet seem to have wives that love and respect them. In this day and age the quality of the family life is largely decided by the wife, and perhaps it always has been.
Proverbs 21:9 & 25:24 It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house.
Note; even wise Solomon didn’t give any way for a man to deal with a brawling woman besides to avoid her. Solomon kept marrying more wives and concubines until he had 1,000. Then he concluded:
Ecclesiastes 7:26(TLB) A prostitute(literally, “The woman whose heart is snares and nets.”) is more bitter than death. May it please God that you escape from her, but sinners don’t evade her snares. 27-28 This is my conclusion, says the Preacher. Step by step I came to this result after researching in every direction: One tenth of one percent of the men I interviewed could be said to be wise, but not one woman! 29 And I found that though God has made men upright, each has turned away to follow his own downward road.
If I want to give men wise advice, like Solomon, I’d just be advising them to steer clear of modern liberated women who pretend at equality with men. Perhaps if they can find a throwback who behaves like the holy women of old, that one might be worth marrying, but don’t risk cursing yourself to a marriage more bitter than death, if you can possibly restrain your sex drive. I have experienced that marital-bondage more bitter than death, and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. I’m just warning men that there is no such thing as a continually God-fearing and wise woman who will dutifully keep to their vows. Even exceedingly wise king Solomon could not find one wise woman out of the thousand chosen women he married. Women are weaker vessels, prone to defile, and in a society where it is illegal to correct your wife, most all of them are going to greatly disappoint you as they drift further and further into sin uncorrected, and the cunt-worshipping cowards in the churches won’t correct them either, but instead they’ll encourage them to act against you, and speak falsely against you, in God’s name. Don’t be deceived! This “church” is not Christ’s bride, but a Great Whore. They are false teachers and the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever.
“I’m just warning men that there is no such thing as a continually God-fearing and wise woman who will dutifully keep to their vows.”
Except that there is!
I can think of a number of women in our church who are like this. They are absolute gems and it is clear to all those around them that they are holy, righteous, God-fearing women who are in beautiful submission to their husbands. I did know another one, but sadly, she passed away a couple of years ago due to breast cancer. Her heartbroken husband is still grieving her. They were incredibly devoted to each other; they’d been married over 40 years.
I’m fairly certain these women didn’t actually start out their married lives being these beautiful gems; they tell me they struggled and fought with their husbands like most women do, but with lots of prayer and spending time in the word of the Lord and working things out with their husbands, they found their role and are richly rewarded every day with a joyous marriage. I can even tell you what their husbands did to encourage these women to become these precious wives, but I doubt anyone on here would care to know. Because it’s much easier to blame marital problems on women and feminism and pretend that men don’t play a role. (And I know what these husbands did, because two of these couples counselled my husband and I).
“If men were causing their own problems that might be the case, but I’m convinced that is largely not the case for most Christian men.”
Why do you think this is not the case? Because of your own experiences? I am yet to discover a troubled marriage where both parties aren’t partially to blame. As one of the preachers from my church said about a broken marriage from adultery: the cheater is in the wrong for cheating. But the marriage was in trouble long before the cheating happened, and it takes two. Always. Why did the cheater, cheat?
Ace says: I can even tell you what their husbands did to encourage these women to become these precious wives, but I doubt anyone on here would care to know.
I don’t care to hear more of Ace’s wisdom. LOL This is starting to sound like the intro to an infomercial for Feminist churchian claptrap. Huh! So, it isn’t the adulterous woman who is at fault, it is the husband who first failed to worship her. /S
Ace says: I am yet to discover a troubled marriage where both parties aren’t partially to blame … it takes two. Always.
Pure foolishness! Ace didn’t comprehend the book of Hosea, I see. In the Bible, God always speaks of a guilty party in every sin, and most sins are against an innocent party. The Bible isn’t a book of fifty/fifty morality. Sin is wicked and you are not to do it, regardless. This unholy churchian effort to spread the blame onto men for their wives’ rebellion continues to disgust wise people. Why is the church so unfaithful to Christ? Does Jesus suck so bad as a spiritual leader that he drives the church into Satan’s arms? God forbid you should imply that. The church just represents your typical bride who truly needs Christ to come rule her with a rod of iron, like the first Adam should have ruled over Eve when she transgressed his forbiddance even when their was no prior human sin in the world. The very first human sin was a woman rebelling against both God and her husband completely unprovoked, and the second human sin was a man listening to his wife’s words instead of God’s word. And the Bible mentions this as being a pattern, and why women are to hold their tongues in the congregation of the Lord’s people. I don’t form my theology based off of anecdotes told by strange women on the internet who have lost their credibility telling too many suspicious stories. Spare us your infomercial for the blue-pill.
Her heartbroken husband is still grieving her. They were incredibly devoted to each other; they’d been married over 40 years.
Hey, I’m heartbroken and grieving over my wife too, and after only 17 years and all of them treacherous, difficult, and incredibly disappointing for me. I guess you could say, it must be supernatural love that I evidence, while this other dude might just be naturally missing a happier situation for himself. It must be nice, loving somebody who loves you back. Excuse me while I go stop up my ears.
Yep, it’s awesome loving somebody who loves you back ???? I do it every day. As does my husband. We’ve been down this road, we know how to get out. It doesn’t sound like you’re ever going to get out, or that you even want to.
OT:
He blames feminism but has other points that are still blue pill. One is where they both say that most sex workers (prostitutes, strippers, cam girls) are coerced (trafficked) into this work. They fail to realize that many, not all, women in the rebellious state enjoy this work.
At least this message is going out to an audience that the manosphere does not reach.
This post is your most inflammatory yet. Men are not allowed to have preferences. Women know what is best for men, and are needed to tell them how to act towards- and most of all- what to think about women.
” if you truly made your wife feel like the most important person in the world, you would not be getting divorced. I can promise you that. ”
Hosea would like a word…
Sharkly – one question. You say nobody understands the problems you have encountered with your wife and you haven’t been believed. You say she has an addiction. You say she has been diagnosed with several mental disorders. You say that with treatment, you would have back the wife you married.
I shared my story of a marriage battling addiction and how tough it is – how the very nature of addiction (and substance abuse) changes the very nature of the person we fell in love with.
You are going through a divorce because it is impossible to live with your unwell wife but you would like her to get treatment so you can reconcile.
I separated from my husband for six months while he underwent treatment for his most severe addition, and once it was evident that the man I fell in love with was returning, we reconciled (which was always our goal).
Why is it that our situations have so many similarities, yet I am nasty and disrespectful to my husband and I have no credibility and I tell suspicious stories? I agree that my story is hard to believe – it was even harder to live. But it’s the truth.
Why are you allowed to live apart from your wife but I was terrible for living apart from my husband (remember, he left, I didn’t. I just moved to a more suitable house to have a baby in, seeing as how we lived 40 minutes to town and I have quick labours).
Why are you allowed to want back the person you married, but I was terrible for wanting the same thing?
Is it because only women can be at fault and men are always perfect?
Ace,
I figured you’d get around to asking that eventually. Because I figured you wouldn’t clearly see the inherent differences. Yes our spouses both battle with addictions that change how they act but the main differences as I see them are:
1. my wife has chosen every single thing that separates us. I have not chosen to leave, divorce, try to keep the kids away, withhold what was vowed, Etc. My wife is the fool tearing down her own house.
2. I am the head of my marriage, not the one who is supposed to submit in all things as unto the Lord, like you are.
Separately, and of much lesser importance, another distinction is, while your husband’s episodes may seem worse to you, they are not constant, while my wife has been this other person for 17 years straight, with the exception of one 3 hour episode a few years back where she completely reverted into the exact opposite of who she has been when we were at one pastor’s house for counselling. She was everything she had been withholding and completely fooled the man and his wife, and even had me fooled and bewildered. For three hours she was seemingly madly in love with me, praising me, caressing me, sitting up close to me, defending me. I didn’t know what had happened, if she had somehow gotten saved, or decided to change, or what. The pastor and his wife were flabbergasted by how she was so completely adoring of me, as I was telling them how I couldn’t live with her behavior. She made me look like the crazy one to those two who had never really met her before then. I ended up allowing her some stuff that I never would have in front of them, due to her change, out of good faith. But the moment we got into the car and drove away, she was completely sullen and refused to even speak to me or look in my direction. But since I am a man of my word, she knew I would keep my word, even though it turned out that her behavior had only been a brief ruse. Even today she seems bothered and refuses to respond when I ask her about that complete personality inversion.
Also, you say you have studied Intimacy Anorexia, and I can tell you know something about it, where did you get your information on it from? I haven’t found too much information about it out there, and I’m trying to find every bit that I can, to try to find anything that might be helpful to my situation. I was just wondering in case you might have found some resources that I hadn’t come across.
I did not choose separation either; it was chosen for me. Yes, I moved house with the kids, but only because it was winter, my baby was due late July (the coldest part of the year here) and where we lived got snowed in (we were snowed in for 10 days the year before). My labours are very quick (the last one was 16 minutes from when I woke up in full-on labour to when baby was born) and I went into shock, so imagine the disaster if that had happened in total isolation! As it was, baby was born at home before the midwives managed to get there. When they got there, the first thing they did was tend to me, as I was in severe shock, before they even touched the baby. Baby was fine – I had him all wrapped up and was cuddling him, but I was in danger. If I had remained in the house we had been in, there is a very high probability that I would have died. In my new house, both midwives were 15 minutes drive away. At the old place, the closest midwife was 35 minutes, the back-up midwife 45 minutes. And that was only if the roads were safe.
Nor did I keep the kids away from my husband. It was his choice that they remain with me during the week so they could attend school – he was staying with a mate out in the country and there was no room for the kids there. He saw them as often as he wanted to. The family court (his choice, not mine) awarded me full custody with him having visitation every 2nd weekend, but he saw them a lot more. I didn’t even tell the courts about his addictions (although my lawyer wanted me to) because I didn’t want to come between him and the kids. The kids loved him, and he loved them.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say a wife is to submit to sin. Lori Alexander has addressed this multiple times on her blog. We serve God first and foremost – He is our highest authority. Expecting me to lie to people (authorities), hide drugs etc. Once I was out of that environment, I refused to do it anymore.
Most of the information I have found on Intimacy Anorexia is on Google Scholar. There are a few pages about it in one of my old Psychology textbooks that I still have from when I did my child psychology degree, but I’d be fairly sure all this same info is available online, as the textbooks I have are now quite old. David Myers and Nathan DeWall are the authors – “Psychology 8th edition” is the one I have but there are later editions now.
” Nowhere in the Bible does it say a wife is to submit to sin. [..] Expecting me to lie to people (authorities) ”
Ge 20:2 – Sarah is complicit in Abraham’s lie about their marriage to the highest authority in the land, the king
Ep 5:22 – wives are to submit *in all things* to their husbands, *as* they would submit to the Lord
1 Pe 3:6 – Sarah calls Abraham her lord, submits to his authority in the face of sin, as exemplified in Ge 20:2
As has been stated before, Lori’s blog is a wonderful thing for what it is, but her theology and some of her claims do indeed miss the mark. A wife is to submit to her husband, always. Insodoing, she is honoring the Lord. Any sin incurred falls on the shoulder of the husband, as exemplified in Ge 3:9.
” We serve God first and foremost – He is our highest authority. ”
This statement appears to be truthful on the surface, but quickly is shown to be a lie masquerading as truth (the Deceiver’s favorite form of lie, as witnessed in tempting Jesus with Scripture, ver batim, in Lk 4:10-11). The text is true 100%, but the way it is employed is incorrect. This lie is exposed as follows:
Ge 2:22 – God brings wife to husband. She is under his authority, in the Order created by God
1 Co 11:3 – The husband is the head of the wife. The church is not the head of the wife, Christ is not the head of the wife. The husband is the head of the wife.
Ge 16:9, Pm 1:12 – The wayward servant (regardless of ‘righteous cause’ felt on behalf of the servant) is sent back to submit to the authority of the master
Ep 6:5, Ro 13:1 – Servant is placed under the master’s authority, and all authority is given by God
So we see that this truth-hiding-a-lie is actually just simple rebellion on her behalf. It is saying ‘I don’t like this authority, I will appeal this by going to the higher authority.’ The higher authority then asks: ‘Why are you here? *Through my authority*, I have placed you under your husband’s authority. You dishonor me when you dishonor him: go back to, and submit to, your husband’s authority.’
Using a legal term to grow in understanding, what takes place is called a remand.
She is sinning. By rebelling (not submitting) against her husband’s authority, she is assuming a position of moral superiority to her husband, not subjugation. She is not the head- not of her husband, her marriage, not even herself. It is shameful for a woman to not be under authority! 1 Co 11:5.
A man’s actions are evaluated on how well he serves his wife through leadership. A woman’s actions are evaluated on how well she submits to her husband, in everything, as if she were submitting to the Lord. She can never be wrong if she always submits completely.
I have not thought this entirely through, but here are my initial thoughts:
God through the law calls us to be perfect, even more perfect than humanly possible.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
(We cannot humanly achieve perfection through the law. So we will clearly all need a redeemer.)
Some sins are greater than other sins.
John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
To be as perfect as possible, we may be put in positions of having to pick the lesser of two evils.
(Like voting for the pussy grabber over the usurping ball buster.)
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Here Peter is choosing to disobey the High Priest, his nation’s chief governing authority, to obey God instead. The lower authority is overruled by the Highest.
While this is a far fetched example: If your husband asked you to go kill the innocent neighbor kids, I believe it would be a lesser sin to disobey your husband than to disobey God’s command not to murder which is one of the “Ten commandments”, and universally recognized to be a great sin.
However in matters where you are unsure or where the answer is unknowable, it is always better to obey your husband, because I believe the husband like Christ can actually intervene between you and God, either removing your guilt before God, or even taking it upon himself as illustrated in this lengthy section from God’s law:
Numbers 30:6 And if she had at all an husband, when she vowed, or uttered ought out of her lips, wherewith she bound her soul; 7 And her husband heard it, and held his peace at her in the day that he heard it: then her vows shall stand, and her bonds wherewith she bound her soul shall stand. 8 But if her husband disallowed her on the day that he heard it; then he shall make her vow which she vowed, and that which she uttered with her lips, wherewith she bound her soul, of none effect: and the Lord shall forgive her. 9 But every vow of a widow, and of her that is divorced, wherewith they have bound their souls, shall stand against her. 10 And if she vowed in her husband’s house, or bound her soul by a bond with an oath; 11 And her husband heard it, and held his peace at her, and disallowed her not: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she bound her soul shall stand. 12 But if her husband hath utterly made them void on the day he heard them; then whatsoever proceeded out of her lips concerning her vows, or concerning the bond of her soul, shall not stand: her husband hath made them void; and the Lord shall forgive her. 13 Every vow, and every binding oath to afflict the soul, her husband may establish it, or her husband may make it void. 14 But if her husband altogether hold his peace at her from day to day; then he establisheth all her vows, or all her bonds, which are upon her: he confirmeth them, because he held his peace at her in the day that he heard them. 15 But if he shall any ways make them void after that he hath heard them; then he shall bear her iniquity. 16 These are the statutes, which the Lord commanded Moses, between a man and his wife, between the father and his daughter, being yet in her youth in her father’s house.
I do feel that disobedience to your husband is let’s just say a medium level sin. Obeying him would be better than defying him over a small sin, but worse than obeying him in a “greater sin”. If there is any doubt in your mind err on the side of obeying your husband, and pray that God’s grace will cover you under your husband’s mantle of responsibility. However if you clearly know something to be a very grave sin before God, do not do it, in the most gracious way that you can possibly fail to obey, and again pray for God’s grace in the situation, and be very humble and meek with your husband, that you might win him by your otherwise respectful behavior.
That’s kind of a work in progress, but that is what I’m sort of thinking at the moment. But definitely pray and do your own study also. The above is just my best guess.
ikr – I know there are a few men who believe as you do, but it is not the teachings of my church (and not the belief of my husband, or myself). We believe that God is always the final authority.
My husband has told me a number of times that he appreciates my standing firm on refusing to submit to sin, as it helped him to keep on the straight and narrow. Yes, there was a time I even submitted to him even in sin, but our church preachers helped me understand I should not be doing that. Since we reconciled, my husband has told me he is glad I hold to the standards we both believe (he believes, but is unwilling) as it means he can make a choice to be the best role model for our kids rather than falling into sin and temptation himself. What is that, if not the definition of a helpmeet?
Submitting in everything, as unto the Lord doesn’t mean submitting to clear sin, as the Lord never asks us to sin. It means submitting to our husbands just as we do to the Lord. Submission to God comes first, above our submission to our husbands. Deutoronomy 11:1 makes that clear.
If a man is insane and tells his wife to kill their children, should she obey? Of course not!! It’s one thing to submit to our husbands in something we disagree with, but which won’t cause too much harm. It’s quite another to take that “submission in everything” to ridiculous levels like committing atrocities because our husbands tell us to. God will never reward us for that, because He makes it quite clear in His word what He expects of us as Christians. A woman doesn’t suddenly not become a Christian because she gets married – she still follows Jesus first and foremost. A woman who turns her back on what Jesus taught so she can submit to her husband in sin is no longer a Christian. The Bible tells us that we will all have to answer to God alone – we will be responsible for our own actions. I really don’t believe that “my husband told me to” is going to wash there. Not after we’ve been baptised individually as adults. 2 Corin 5:10 is the verse that comes to mind there.
Matthew Henry’s commentary says this: “So it follows, Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ (Eph. 5:24), with cheerfulness, with fidelity, with humility, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing—in every thing to which their authority justly extends itself, in every thing lawful and consistent with duty to God.” That sums up EXACTLY what my church teaches and what my husband and I believe. If you believe differently, that’s your right, but you will never convince me to submit to sin, because I believe with all my heart that it would be wrong for me to do so.
“I do feel that disobedience to your husband is let’s just say a medium level sin. Obeying him would be better than defying him over a small sin, but worse than obeying him in a “greater sin”. If there is any doubt in your mind err on the side of obeying your husband, and pray that God’s grace will cover you under your husband’s mantle of responsibility. However if you clearly know something to be a very grave sin before God, do not do it, in the most gracious way that you can possibly fail to obey, and again pray for God’s grace in the situation, and be very humble and meek with your husband, that you might win him by your otherwise respectful behavior.”
^^ This ^^
Our comments overlapped so I only just read it now. But that sums up what I believe, what my husband believes, and what our church teaches.
I’m not very good with the gracious, humble, meek parts. I simply say “I’m not doing that. Don’t even ask me to do it because you know I wont’.” It works, but yeah, I could probably be sweeter about it.
” If your husband asked you to go kill the innocent neighbor kids, I believe it would be a lesser sin to disobey your husband than to disobey God’s command not to murder which is one of the “Ten commandments”, and universally recognized to be a great sin. ”
and
” Submitting in everything, as unto the Lord doesn’t mean submitting to clear sin, as the Lord never asks us to sin. It means submitting to our husbands just as we do to the Lord. Submission to God comes first, above our submission to our husbands. ”
are actually the same thing. Both miss a crucial story in obedience in the face of sin.
Ge 22:2 has Abraham being instructed to terminate the life of his son. Is this not an instruction to kill an innocent child- murder? The ‘image of God’? Would this not be a sin?
Through Abraham’s complete and full obedience to God’s authority, we see that God does not allow Abraham to sin. Ge 22:11-12.
Similarly, we see God’s provision covering Sara when she submitted in obedience to Abraham, by not allowing sin to occur between her and the king. Ge 20:6.
We cannot sin if we are acting in complete obedience to the God-sanctioned authorities in our lives. Just as God cannot contradict Himself, He will never force His daughter in a situation of choosing to sin (disobeying Him) or sin (disobeying him). He guards His children who obey from committing sin.
We are all sinners. We all need our sins washed with Jesus precious blood. Don’t let your righteous conviction over a little sin lead you into a greater sin. Here is another bit of tough wisdom to ponder:
Ecclesiastes 7:16 Do not be excessively righteous and do not be overly wise. Why should you ruin yourself? 17 Do not be excessively wicked and do not be a fool. Why should you die before your time?
I think this may mean that if you have ever fibbed to cover for your own self in a small matter and already stand before the law as a condemned liar in need of forgiveness, when the Nazi’s ask if you are hiding a family of Jews in your home, perhaps don’t pick that moment to be overly righteous. If you have lied to save your own self from lesser perils, don’t add hypocrisy to your lying by suddenly waxing honest when the lives of many others are at stake. You are already in need of great forgiveness, and you have lied regularly enough in the past, don’t suddenly and hypocritically obey the letter of the law and get others killed by your newfound piety.
Don’t spend your days trying to spin your husband’s requests into some kind of evil. If you yourself are not so perfect, don’t add hypocrisy to your sin of disobedience to avoid some framed up two-bit sin you’ve projected onto your husband’s request. Obey with a cheerful heart, as unto the Lord, because the Lord looks on the heart, while people will judge you based upon outward appearances. If you’ve already willingly covered for your husband’s illegal Weed-habit, you don’t have to go nuts at him because of other small infractions of legality. Your sudden law-abidance just might be self-serving hypocrisy in defiance of your husband.
As your spiritual head, you should defer to your unbelieving husband in small matters and pray for God’s grace like Naaman did, and was granted it.
2 Kings 5:17b for thy servant [Naaman] will henceforth offer neither burnt offering nor sacrifice unto other gods, but unto the Lord. 18 In this thing the Lord pardon thy servant, that when my master goeth into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leaneth on my hand, and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon: when I bow down myself in the house of Rimmon, the Lord pardon thy servant in this thing. 19 And he [Elisha] said unto him, Go in peace. So he departed from him a little way.
Please don’t misconstrue these last two comments of mine into any sort of license to sin. I’m just saying pick the lesser evil and humbly pray for grace, where there is seemingly no perfect choice available to you.
There are many hypothetically impossible situations in God’s Creation.
* If God is all-powerful, He can do anything. Wrong: God cannot lie, and He cannot change.
* If God is all-powerful, He can create something He cannot destroy. But then if He cannot destroy it, is He all-powerful?
What I am saying is the situations postulated I find to be of this category: hypothetical, yet impossible.
Not only do specific verses confirm everything written here, and the models (stories) that outlined, but the full literature of the Bible further confirms this:
God cannot lead mankind to sin (Jm 1:13), so a child being in a situation of ‘choosing between 2 sins’ is a fallacy.
Man and woman are 1 flesh (Ge 2:24), 1 ‘person’ in Christ. Ergo, there is 1 head, not 2 heads, to the body (Ep 5:23). No 2 separate decisions to being made.
A woman cannot serve 2 masters (Mt 6:24). God does not create for Her an environment where she must choose. Her master is the Lord, and she honors Him by honoring her lord.
This verse puts the whole conversation to bed:
Ep 5:24- just as the Church submits to Christ, wives submit *in everything* to their husbands.
Are we to then assume, based on the logic being presented, that wives can elect to *not* submit in certain instances? This then immediately suggests the Church can elect to *not* submit to Christ in certain instances.
Yes, Christ is perfect, and man is not. But as we know, the Plan of God’s Order is perfect, even if the actors within are no. But, continue to execute the plan.
Wives- submit in everything- to your lord: your husband. You will not be permitted to sin, will not be allowed to be in a situation of temptation between 2 evils. It’s a theological impossibility.
Oh you have no idea about my life. If I was only talking about covering his illegal weed habit, it wouldn’t even be an issue.
Yes, wives WILL be sinning if they submit in some circumstances; they will be having to choose the lesser of two evils – I’ve lived it. It’s easy to say it’s a theological impossibility when you’re not the one living it out. This is why I go to the preachers from my church for advice in situations like this, rather than taking it from random men without a clue as to the facts on the internet, because the preachers know all that is going on. They have advised me to continue doing what I am doing, and my husband is grateful for it.
Sharkly – it almost seems like you “get it”. Your advice is exactly what I’m doing.
The last few comments of mine were not really meant as “advice”. They are just my current opinion. what ikr has shared also has a lot of good points, and seemed to have a more consistent basis for behavior than ones own conscience and speculating as to the ranking of various sins in the eyes of God. I’ll have to read through all the verses he has provided and consider the subject for a while. The story of God asking Abraham to sacrifice his only son, has always been a troubling story for me, especially when I was a young boy myself, since my father was quite devout and faithful himself. Although Hannah gave up Samuel to the Lord, I don’t recall any other Bible character who was commanded by God to kill their own offspring for God. While it appears to have been a test of faith, I hadn’t really considered it for implications as to how we daily relate to God and each other. Jephthah made a vow to sacrifice what ended up being his daughter, but we are not certain how he ended up giving her to the Lord. I’ll have to ponder this all some more.