I was recently reminded of 1 Peter 3:7, a verse too often misused by Feminism’s enforcers to help subjugate husbands to their wives. Often they might say something like, “husbands, if you don’t hear your wife, God won’t hear you”. But is that what saint Peter actually told us? Does God really refuse to listen to the prayers of all husbands who are not tuned in to hearken unto the voices of their wives?
1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
The key misunderstanding is that the word “your” in that verse does not refer just to the husband. But, because of an unfortunately ambiguous English translation, most people will initially read it that way, even though that seemingly puts the verse at odds with the uniform strict patriarchy that God prescribes throughout the rest of the Bible.
The Greek word for “your” (Strong’s 5216) which is pronounced hoo-mone in English, and is written ὑμῶν in Greek, is plural not singular. The husband and wife are to exist in perfect unity with the wife in full subjection to the husband in everything.(Ephesians 5:22-24) The principle is that if, through lack of knowledge, you don’t live in unity as heirs together of the grace of God, then your prayers together will be hindered.
Matthew Henry explained it this way over 300 years ago:
They are heirs together of the grace of life, of all the blessings of this life and another, and therefore should live peaceably and quietly one with another, and, if they do not, their prayers one with another and one for another will be hindered, so that often “you will not pray at all, or, if you do, you will pray with a discomposed ruffled mind, and so without success.”
Churchian female-supremacists naturally want to blame a husband for all of his wife’s sinful behavior and then deceitfully construe the testing and hardship he endures, against him, claiming his prayers go unanswered as confirming evidence of God’s displeasure with his treatment of his wife. Don’t let woman-worshiping churchians twist this holy verse that states that one must realize that women are in fact weaker vessels yet still should be honored as co-recipients of God’s grace, lest your collective prayers be hindered, into something that turns God into the enforcer for their Feminist false teaching, into a God who won’t listen to any husband until they first hearken unto the voice of their gullible wife.
Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
The misuse of 1 Peter 3:7 is Satan’s same old plan for getting husbands to follow their easily misled wive’s leading, just like how Adam hearkened to and followed Eve’s leading and got the whole earth cursed by God. We are to honor the fact that women are by their creation weaker vessels, but that even so they are also heirs together with men of the grace of life, and by handling them according to knowledge, we husbands will not foolishly antagonize our weaker halves and so hinder our united prayers together with them.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
I would also add that God speaks to husbands and directs them to lead the family. A husband should seek his wife’s input or counsel on major decisions but not automatically follow the wife’s counsel.
Bill Gothard taught that wives have “special intuition from God” and thus husbands should heavily emphasize their wife’s thoughts and counsel. I chose to buy into this and be strongly influenced by Gothard’s teaching on this subject. As a result I gave my wife veto power, any decision that she felt strongly about I yielded to her thoughts, desires, or counsel. The end result was that I was not leading as the husband.
I never realized that “your” here is plural. Thanks Sharkly for pointing this out.
If a husband is not spiritually leading his wife, even though she wants to be lead and taught, will her feeble attempts at prayer be hindered too? I’ve just been really struggling lately on whether or not God hears my prayers. I’ve even had thoughts like, “God doesn’t even care to listen to the prayers of women, regardless of if you do it correctly or not.” I really like your blog, by the way! I love God’s design for marriage and family, thank you for writing about things that so many people won’t!
Punky – God hears women, I can tell you this from experience. It doesn’t matter what our husbands are doing, if our heart is right, God hears us.
Bee – as a woman, I can honestly say that I don’t have any special intuition given to me by God regarding the best decisions for the family. I have a mother’s maternal instinct, but that’s different to what you are saying, isn’t it? I also have very good instincts when it comes to men being “safe” or “creepy” but I think this comes from a lifelong fear of men (in general).
In my marriage, my husband and I discuss the big decisions together, and I support his choice. I don’t veto anything – I don’t believe that is my right. I do, however, pray earnestly that my husband will be led to make the right choice then I leave it to God.
In the early years of our marriage, my husband and I would pray together daily. It was when we stopped doing that, that things started to fall apart. When we were praying together, united in prayer, our marriage was a happy one. To me, that backs up the way Sharkly explained that verse (which I have never heard explained that way, but I like it).
excellent post, Sharkly. i did not know that ‘your’ was plural, either. but it makes sense when viewed in the whole of the bible.
– – –
Bee – Gothard’s ‘ministry’ was sooo toxic. is he still around after all those sexual allegations? i know some people who were intense, devout supporters of his. the very first ‘red flag’ is that those who follow him become followers of him and not God. anytime people begin to follow a person, and that person feeds off of it and encourages it, i run.
– – –
punky1212 – i think it’s really, really, really hard to pray for a husband who continues to dishonor God. i know there are teachings out there that we can pray our husbands to God, but the truth is that God has given each of us a choice, and God gives us the freedom to choose, even when our choices hurt others, even when our choices hurt children, even when our choices are evil, even when people are praying for our choices.
so we’re left wondering what the purpose of prayer and praying for our husband actually is. because it feels defeating. we intellectually know that God is not manipulated by our desires, but we also know that God is moved by prayer, but we also know that people have the freedom to choose, but we also know of many answers to prayers where people turned back to God, but we also know . . . ad nauseum . . .
i admit to intensely struggling with prayer over the years. it was said that if anyone could pray their husband to God, it was me. but my first husband continued to choose against God till the day he died, as far as we are aware according to the actions he revealed to our children and me.
so, were those countless hours of prayer and sacrifice a waste?
what was the purpose of all those prayers, anyway?
is it even worth it, now, to pray fervently for others? even when we’re praying according to scripture, so we know we’re praying according to the will of God for that person?
i admit to greatly struggling with these questions.
recently i’ve begun to see at least one of the aspects of prayer as a way to fill us with God so there’s no room for Satan or this world or lies. i can pray for others, and i do. but i pray to be so filled with God that fear and anger and disappointment and all these negative things have less to little room to take up residence in my heart and soul. prayer + reading the bible fills us up.
43 “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44 Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.” Matthew 12:43-45
8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things. Philippians 4:8
i think of these verses when i think of what i fill my mind and heart and soul with. we have all this space in our minds and hearts and souls, and it gets filled with something. we need to actively and intentionally wisely choose what we fill our hearts and souls and minds with.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. Matthew 12:35
we need to continuously, intentionally fill our hearts with the good treasures of God so that what comes out of us are those good treasures.
i know how discouraging it is to pray for someone, especially your husband, and to be powerless. not only are they hurting us, our kids, and others, but they are hurting themselves. and we cannot stop it. but we have to live with the negative consequences of all their ill choices. it’s rough.
also …
21 If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat;
And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink;
22 For so you will heap coals of fire on his head,
And the Lord will reward you.
Proverbs 25:21-25
the thing about this is that no one likes having hot coals of fire heaped on their head, and the person who refuses to turn to Christ will rebel all the more intensely, and they’ll often take it out on you or your children or those you love.
following Jesus is super hard in a marriage where one partner refuses to honor and follow God.
so … our prayers for them, while necessary, need to be overwhelmed with prayers for God to fill us with Him and for God to empty us of all the things that will hurt us. and for endurance. and for patience with ourselves. and for continued strength to endure these really, really, really hard days were we feel isolated, alone, and abandoned, and uncared for, and unimportant.
Ame- wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a kind and thoughtful response! That’s very good advice ???? It’s comforting to know I’m not the only one who struggles with prayer.
Ame,
Bill Gothard is 85 now. He was removed from the non-profit he founded and since has had a very low profile. I was saddened to see his fall because he did have some good insights, and a few good books.
I am not a Gothard insider so the rest is just speculation on my part:
1. I think that his desire to be celibate and never marry caused pent up sexual tension which erupted later in his life. I think he did not have the rare gift of celibacy and tried to do without marriage out of misplaced zeal for the Lord. I think a similar thing happens with some Catholic priests.
2. The female internship program for older teen girls to go to the Gothard ministry headquarters and work there was a large mistake in judgement. Most of the girls were probably homeschooled, probably sheltered and naive, and suddenly placing them in a group living situation far from their families so they could shuffle papers in an office was fraught with peril. Foolish mistake, IMHO.
Bee – i do not know a lot about Gothard, but what i do know, he created a cult-like-following. and that is *not* biblical. does that mean everything he did was wrong? probably not. but enough.
there were a couple times over the years i looked into his stuff b/c of the people i knew who were so sold out to him, but i could never agree with it. same thing with sovereign grace ministries. a lot of people did a lot of evil in the name of God, and woe to them when they face their Maker.
these situations leave a lot of unanswered questions. i know i have asked many of them in light of my ex-in-laws and their ministry. they did do some incredible things in their ministry while simultaneously doing evil. i do not understand all that except to know that God uses even evil for His purposes. this is what i’ve kinda come to in all of it, in hindsight (in foresight, we need to be proactive not to allow such people to hold influence over others):
15 Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill: 16 The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; 17 but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice.” Philippians 1:15-18
punky1212,
Welcome!
If your husband does not pray with you, then of course your unity in prayer, just isn’t there. However God does hear the prayers of the faithful. The redeemed are in fact God’s children, and He hears when they cry out to their Father. Yes God does care how you pray, and God has given instruction in the Bible for how men and women are each to pray, and Jesus gave us “The Lord’s Prayer” as a model for how to pray. Do your best to pray exactly how God will be most honored, but, understand that even fasting and praying with great devotion cannot force God to answer your prayer in the way that you think He should. Thank you for your complement on this blog. Everybody can fellowship and contribute and pray for others, so it really ends up being a group effort to get the message out and to serve the kingdom of Jesus Christ. Ame, gave you a good response above. I too have struggled with prayers that seem to fail, but that tests our faith, to believe when we don’t see any results. Often we pray that certain hardships and trials would pass us by, when it is for our eternal benefit that we should endure them, and by them we are molded to become more righteous and caring like our Lord.
If in fact you have truly repented of your sinfulness, accepted Jesus substitutionary death on your behalf, and now live intending to serve Jesus Christ in everything, then God has said that he hears the prayers of His own children, and will give you those things which are eternally good and needful for you. And God loves his children, and disciplines those He loves too. So If you are in fact a child & servant of God’s you will be tried and tested. The Bible does not preach earthly prosperity as being any necessary feature of the Christian life. But we can choose through faith to be content, knowing that God loves His own children, and He will use us and mold us in a way that is good for us and brings Him glory in eternity future. We should try to be content like a weaned child, not crying for constant attention, but resting in the knowledge that our Heavenly Father has His eye on us. The Lord knows I need to work on that myself!
I haven’t kept up with the Gothardites, but I have little use for Bill’s books that seemingly add to the scriptures, or for those who get into his thrall. I once knew some Gothardites and even borrowed their Basic & Advanced books to skim through. There were plenty of goofy things in there. They had dress code pictures that were straight out of the 1950’s. While that isn’t bad, Jesus never wore that, nor does it guarantee righteous living. Plus, for the sake of legalistic competition, some Amish and Old Mennonite types have got that beat by far, dressing in plain clothing styles that are 200 years old. And no buttons! 200 years ago fancy buttons were a show of worldly wealth, and so they are to be eschewed.
Hypocrisy was in the Gothard books too. They’d play pick & choose from the Old Testament which parts of Jewish ceremonial law they wanted to require today. I was once called out in a Mennonite Church College/Career-Group by a young Gothardite woman because my mother, a career Christian missionary, wore clip-on earrings. Then she went on to add that we all should be following more of the Jewish cleanliness laws. But I shut her up by laughing that I wasn’t going to take a lecture on following Jewish bylaws from a hog-farmer’s daughter. LOL She was still living with her parents on their hog farm.
As I recall Bill Gothard’s Advanced book seemed to say that when women were on their periods, that they were too ceremonially unclean to share a bed or bedroom with, while somehow excepting that menstruating women were clean enough to continue cleaning everybody’s clothes, and preparing everybody’s food in violation of Jewish law. SMH It was just pick & choose what Jewish cleanliness guidelines you want to hold others to. And yet they’d get crazy dogmatic about enforcing their arbitrary choices from inapplicable standards. It really was seemingly an outward competition for most of them.
I never knew about Gothard or the Sovereign Grace Ministries until pretty recently, but it seems like they teach a form of patriarchy that is unbiblical according to what a lot of people I trust have reported.
BGR’s post on this was good, too, even though I can see how both of y’all have different convictions. To me, that makes sense that men would decide to lead differently, especially if their life circumstances are different. I liked both posts!
“But I shut her up by laughing that I wasn’t going to take a lecture on following Jewish bylaws from a hog-farmer’s daughter. LOL ”
LOL!!!!! How is that even possible?!?!?
That made my day, Sharkly!!!
I guess like the whole Jews for Jesus movement, there must be a
Sharkly, I very much respect you, and sympathize with you and your situation, but I’m not sure if your exegesis is sound here. I’m not an expert in Greek, but know a little. Check
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_peter/3.htm
verse 1 has:
Homoios hai gunaikes […] humon (likewise wives […] of you [plural])
verse 7 has
Hoi andres homoios […] humon (husbands likewise […] of you [plural])
I.e. the same structure : v1-6 addressing wives, v7 addressing husbands (i.e. 6 verses for wives, 1 for husbands….).
To me it seems still possible that the plural in Greek in v7 is only addressing men.
However, I agree it does NOT mean “if you don’t hear your wife, God doesn’t hear your prayers”.
It does say husbands also have a responsibility to act with a certain attitude towards their wives.
The verse seems to acknowledge that wives are the WEAKER vessel, and that husbands should be aware that they’re weaker, and treat them accordingly (i.e. be aware of their weaknesses, and be prepared to deal with them). The honor given to your wife should be according to her being a co-heir of eternal life, i.e. it’s an honor bestowed by her redemption in Christ, NOT by her inherently being a woman.
Keep up the good work, I’m praying for you.
Paul,
Within 1 Peter 3:7 the verse in question, the apostle Peter then drops down to referring to the wife in the singular form. When it then goes back to “your” plural I feel it is the husband and wife whose prayers together are hindered, by their disunity, not that other men in Christ’s church might have their prayers hindered by a vindictive scattershot God, over how I might treat my singular wife. And Biblehub was where I had initially gone to look all that up back again myself. Great minds think alike, or not. I respect you too, by the way.
I often notice myself in my writing on here, bouncing back and forth between speaking about men and women generally as sexes, and then speaking to my readers as individuals. Some times I vacillate when writing whether to make something a generalization about humans, or to personalize it to my reader. Whether I should indirectly mention that society would be better if men and women were more honest, or directly saying, society would be better off if you were more honest. Some times it is hard to understand the meaning of things written, even when it hasn’t been translated from another language. But that’s why it is important to have a good translation that reduces the ambiguity that our modern English language is full of. The King James is one of the best for getting that right. The plural of Thou, Thee, Thy & Thine is Ye, You, Your & Yours. The King James would have said, that thy prayers be not hindered, if it meant just the husband’s prayer. But it was translated, that your prayers be not hindered, because it was referring to more than just the singular husband of that singular wife. I don’t believe the original intent was to jump from one man’s singular wife back to hindering the prayers of all husbands, but to hindering the married couple’s prayers, as that is who is being spoken of in the verse before the plural “your” appears. IMHO
Well, it appears that BGR has doubled down with another post. He concludes: God tells men they must dwell with their wives according to knowledge, honor them in their station as the weaker vessel, and honor them as fellow believers and sisters in Christ. If a husband fails to do these three things, God will not hear his prayers.
So their prayers are not just hindered, but now BGR again says that God won’t even hear husbands!
Most Bibles copy the KJV and say that your prayers may be hindered, but, here is how some other Bible translations put it:
(AMP) so that your prayers will not be hindered or ineffective.
(GNT) so that nothing will interfere with your prayers.
(ISV) so that nothing may interfere with your prayers.
(Phillips) If you don’t do this, you will find it impossible to pray properly.
(NTE) that way nothing will obstruct your prayers.
(RGT) so that your prayers are not interrupted.
I responded to BGR’s new post with the following comment:
I agree with most of what you have said, but I still agree with Matthew Henry, that the reason why 1 Peter 3:7 goes immediately from referring to a singular wife(gynaikeiō) (which you forgot to mention) to the plural “your” in: that your prayers be not hindered, is not because all husbands prayers will be hindered by one man’s ignorant treatment of the singular wife mentioned, but because their joint prayers will be hindered by their lack of unity.
I too had made a post regarding this:
https://laf443259520.androsphere.net/2020/03/28/god-hears-husbands/
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (But, I can’t hear the husbands, unless they’re tuned into their wives and honoring them properly, as determined by her happiness.)
LOL That gets pretty tough when your wife has an intimacy disorder and she refuses to share any feelings, besides that she dislikes you, and the things you do. God says that we will be judged by our own words. Perhaps I’ll escape judgement since I’ve been unheard under God’s “cone of silence” all these years.
It probably isn’t a joking matter, but it is hard to take this seriously. Next they’ll say that since few wives will ever feel understood and respected enough, that Christian husbands should just quit wasting time praying their unheard prayers, since mother-god is perpetually siding with her earthly sisters against y’all. She’s up there stamping her feet, plugging her ears, and yelling “I’m not listening”. /S
Don’t believe it men. God, our Heavenly Father, hears his sons prayers even when your wife and church are turned against you. And when they twist a verse against you. Even when your own family abandons you, God will be there to hear you. Nothing can separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Psalm 27:7 Hear, O Lord, when I cry with my voice: have mercy also upon me, and answer me. 8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, Lord, will I seek. 9 Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation. 10 When my father and my mother forsake me, then the Lord will take me up.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
Q: What’s a Jewish dilemma?
A: Free pork.
Hi Sharkly,
As I said, I’m no expert in Greek, but only know a little.
You’re right about the switch to the singular:
“… as with the weaker vessel with the wife …”
but immediately afterwards it already switches to the plural:
” … rendering honor as also joint-heirs …”
(i.e. wives [plural] are joint-heirs) before ending in:
” .. . not to be hindered the prayers of you [plural] … ”
I’ll see if I can dig into this to see how experts on the Greek parse the plural.
(And Biblehub interlinear is great to get deeper insights into the finer points of a text!)
Hmm, even the Greek text variants have a difference in the singular/plural for coheir/coheirs:
sunkleronomoi vs. sugkleronomois
And some of the more technical commentaries show disagreement among experts about the finer points of Greek parsing and interpretation. Here’s where it stops for me.
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/meyer/1_peter/3.htm
“Although in ver. 7 it is the husbands who are addressed, still, as the verse treats of their behaviour towards their wives, ὑμῶν can well apply to both.”
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/egt/1_peter/3.htm
“If ὑμῶν = you husbands (as v.l. συγκληρονόμοι requires) cf. Jam 5:4.”
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/1_peter/3.htm
“that your prayers be not hindered] Some MSS. give a stronger form of the verb, “that your prayers be not cut off (or, stopped).” The more natural interpretation is that which refers the pronoun to both the husband and the wife. Where there was no reciprocated respect, each recognising the high vocation of the other, there could be no union of heart and soul in prayer. Where the husband thought of the wife only as ministering to his comfort or his pleasures, as one whom he might, as both Jewish and Roman law permitted, repudiate at will, there could be no recognition of the fact that she shared his highest hopes. The words clearly include, though they do not dwell on them, the special hindrances to prayer referred to in 1 Corinthians 7:3-5.”
It’s no question however that “if men do not listen to their wives, their prayers will not be heard by God” is a blatantly false interpretation.
but immediately afterwards it already switches to the plural:
” … rendering honor as also joint-heirs …”
(i.e. wives [plural] are joint-heirs)
LOL It’s the same thing again.
The female/wife was singular. Next, I’m saying that saint Peter was telling us that the husband and wife are the joint heirs.(plural) The husbands are being admonished to understand that their wife is a joint heir with them, to prevent a husband from routinely dishonoring his wife for being the weaker vessel,(he knows that part already) and thereby compromising her unity with him in prayer. If he dishonors her enough, instead of praying with him, and for him, she could likely be privately praying to God against him.
Trust me, it can happen! I don’t think it was due to disrespect, but my wife told me she was praying that I’d go blind.(for looking at porn, when she was refusing me sex) And I didn’t tell her, but I’d been praying that God would either bring her to repentance or take her life, so that I can raise our sons to be Christ followers.
From my comment on March 28
“I am not a Gothard insider so the rest is just speculation on my part:
1. I think that his desire to be celibate and never marry caused pent up sexual tension which erupted later in his life. I think he did not have the rare gift of celibacy and tried to do without marriage out of misplaced zeal for the Lord. I think a similar thing happens with some Catholic priests.”
To clarify and share truth; none of the accusations against Bill Gothard were about fornication or sexual immorality. The accusations involved hugs or conversations that were interpreted to be creepy and awkward by the older teen girls making the accusations. The class action lawsuit against Bill Gothard was dropped by the accusers.
It’s no question however that “if men do not listen to their wives, their prayers will not be heard by God” is a blatantly false interpretation.
Amen! Brother Paul.
I really liked those commentaries that you linked. I was shocked to find that my view was so scholarly. LOL After having 1 Peter 3:7 thrown at me repeatedly and reflexively by blue-pill churchians, one day I came across Matthew Henry’s commentary on the verse and did a double take. And after studying the matter, I came to see he was far more correct than the churchians who claim God tunes out redeemed husbands prayers to enforce the honoring of their wives. LOL If only blue-pill-god would do a brother a “solid” and make husbands equal to wives in like regard! /S
The accusations involved hugs or conversations that were interpreted to be creepy and awkward by the older teen girls making the accusations.
I’m always happy to see any man be cleared of female accusations. And “creepy” is often what women call a man who has just refused their advances. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
I had a teacher in (Christian)High School who had two girls accuse him of making sexual advances on them. He was fired on the spot, and the police were called in.(the dude did look creepy) After the police separately questioned the two girls for more details, the details in their stories did not match up. They then confessed that they had been making advances on him and trying to get him to change their grades, and that when he refused and threatened to report them, they decided to falsely accuse him instead. He got his job back, but he wasn’t too happy with how quick everyone had been to throw him under the school bus, and believe he was a pedophile. I don’t believe much was done to the two girls who almost ruined the rest of that man’s life.
the accusations of women that God is not hearing the prayers of men are … hummm … interesting.
my first thought is: ““Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” Matthew 7:1-5
when i am intentionally not honoring God in any area of my life, my prayers are hindered. when we’re focused on accusing and not taking care of our own stuff, pride hinders our prayers.
i remember reading this verse somewhere in the midst of all the stuff with my first husband, and rather than be overjoyed, it made me sad for him. how tragic.
it is quite arrogant for a human to think they can determine the prayers that God hears.
“8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.”
Isaiah 55:8-9
I didn’t go to Christian high school, just the normal public one but the same thing happened at my school, except it was just one student accusing the teacher. I’m not sure if she came onto him and he rejected her (possible, he was fairly young and cute) or if she was trying to get herself out of detention – I can’t remember. But the outcome was the same. He lost his job and got dragged under the bus. She underwent counseling and eventually retracted her statement, but it was too late, the damage was done. As far as I know, he never went back to teaching.
And I’ve already shared with you my friends plight. His accuser is now in Canada. I have no doubt she will do that again, so Canadian men better watch out!!
Some women are truly evil.
The sad thing is, women only have so much power because they were mistreated for so long and now it’s swung way too far in the opposite direction. I know that rape complaints here have been dealt with so differently (and women automatically believed) after a very high profile case in which several police officers were accused of repeatedly raping a teenager (a woman in her 30s when she brought the case to court). The men were found not guilty, and immediately after it was revealed that 2 of the 3 officers were being brought in daily from jail where they were serving time for an identical crime. That had been suppressed. The jury was furious and wanted to change their decision but it was too late.
That’s just one example. The outcry was so big and change demanded so much that the pendulum has swung in the other direction. Now women are believed just because they’re women. They can destroy men so easily, for revenge for whatever imagined slight the man has done.
In America, I think it was the Brock Turner case that was the catalyst for change, giving women the power. I could be wrong there, I’m guessing from things I’ve read.
If the men who were in charge had given women a fair go initially, I’m not convinced that this whole stupid #metoo and #believewomen movement would have ever come into existence.
The pendulum will swing back again, I think it might be starting. I hope it happens soon. Because I fear for my sons becoming men in a world where they are powerless.
A song:
“The sad thing is, women only have so much power because they were mistreated for so long and now it’s swung way too far in the opposite direction.”
I really think that isn’t true. Even in ancient times when women could be seen as more at risk, you can still find examples in almost every ancient culture of where they were protected, held up in a morally-upright way, or looked to as respected figures in their unique female roles. We’ve been studying examples like that in homeschool (and male ones as well). I just don’t think people generally hear that stuff, or even understand how powerful those dynamics were that generally kept women safer.
I think it may be that abuse and violence against women was **lower** back then than now, because there were usually more stricter and immediate punishments and social reinforcements back then that are no longer there now. The breakdown of the family structure, plus women getting sexually involved with bad men more than ever now, all can contribute to more abuse. Plus women really ARE expected to be more independent and take care of themselves (their sexuality and safety, too) and at MUCH younger ages than ever in the past. I think it really was easier when as a culture, they were more protected because people were honest that they were the weaker sex and needed that protection. It’s dishonest to say that women can protect themselves as good as men can. It just isn’t true even with guns (and we own guns).
Stephanie – I agree with you about women being safer in ancient cultures. Sexual abuse happened, no doubt. Especially in times of war (eg. Boudicca’s soldiers cutting women’s breasts off and stuffing them in their mouths and skewering them on stakes) but I think in general, women were more protected. Using the Maori culture as an example, before the Europeans came to settle New Zealand, women were well protected. Rape was almost unheard of – and if it happened, the rapist was killed. Gender roles were strictly defined – there was women’s work and men’s work, and part of the men’s work was protecting the women. It was just what was expected within that culture. But even then, in war/capture etc. it wasn’t uncommon for women to be raped – and men were’t punished for it either, because that was what they did with slaves/captives.
My statement was more relating to modern society, particularly the experiences of women within the judicial system within the past 100 or so years. It has been so incredibly difficult for women’s voices to be heard, and for them to actually get a conviction, that many women didn’t even bother trying. And those that did were let down by the system when their attackers either walked free, or got sentenced to a pathetic sentence.
Here is a good article that helps explain the culture shift, in New Zealand, at least: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/91052680/10-years-on-police-rape-survivor-louise-nicholas-welcomes-final-commission-of-inquiry-report-response
I should also add that although Louise Nicholas is an advocate for rape victims, and was the catalyst for change here in NZ, she also holds in the highest contempt any woman who lies about rape simply for revenge. She has been very vocal about that.
Right now, society is such that when our teenage daughters have friends here for sleepovers, I am inside the house the entire time, to protect my husband and teenage son from the possibility of false accusations. Society has fallen so far. I pray that balance happens soon.
Right now, society is such that when our teenage daughters have friends here for sleepovers, I am inside the house the entire time, to protect my husband and teenage son from the possibility of false accusations.
when my daughters were young, after i married my now-Husband, we were exceedingly careful that nothing they saw or heard could in any way be construed improperly.
there are two parts to this … one is that i was very careful never to share anything with my daughters that they couldn’t also share with their Dad; i didn’t want them to ever wonder if it was okay to tell Dad anything. that’s too much stress on a child.
the other part is that, since he was a sex addict, he looked for that everywhere. and he was very legal-trigger-happy – loved taking me back to court and getting more court orders for anything and everything he possibly could.
so … we always made sure doors were locked when he was dressing, etc … were very careful of any conversations we had where they could hear, etc.
– – –
i also was one to stay very close whenever my daughters had friends sleep over. i never wanted anything misunderstood. and i also was always the one to pick up and/or take home babysitters when they didn’t have their own ride – that was both husbands.
necessary hyper-vigilance in this culture to protect our Men.
OT
Linguistics researcher, Valerie Hobbs, combs through Sermons about divorce preached at conservative Protestant churches and finds the following:
“Findings point to two dominant Discourses of divorce in popular conservative Christian sermons: Divorce as a Highly Restricted Space and Divorce as Male. These Discourses frame divorce in terms antithetical to the reality of divorce and likely bolster statistics on divorce in the Christian church.”
I have not read the paper because it costs $44.00. But, it seems that Hobbs is saying that men are to blame for most divorces. The 70% figure of women initiating divorce that is often quoted is only from one source. Anecdotal, but Dr. F. Roger Devlin thinks the real number is 80% initiated by women. A study of the large subset of those marriages where the wife had a college degree and the couple owned a home showed that 90% were initiated by women.
I am not sure what Ms. Hobbs means by, “… and likely bolster statistics on divorce in the Christian church.”
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17405904.2019.1665079?scroll=top&needAccess=true
[I rescued this comment from the spam folder]
I left this as part of a reply over at Ame’s site:
I wondered how you men would see the role of prayer in the life of a wife for her Husband and family.
First I’ll tell you about the role of the husband, who images Jesus Christ, while the wife images the church. Your husband is the family’s spiritual high priest. Like Jesus Christ who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. If I were a wife, I’d be begging for my husband to pray over me, to make intercession for my transgressions.(Isaiah 53:12) And even though wives are supposed to be always in subjection, I’d be mindful of how Jacob wrestled with the angel until the hollow of Jacob’s thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. Genesis 32:26 And He said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And He said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And He said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
I’d plead with your husband for him to bless you, to say a prayer on your behalf to God whom he serves under.
Some women have husbands who don’t pray. What a more holy thing than that she should sincerely ask her husband to hold her, to pray over her, and then to have her. Most women will use sex for their own selfish ends, defrauding their mate, or to get things, why not use it rightly for bonding your spirits together as it was also intended? What a better thing to associate in your husband’s mind than unity in prayer with joyfully united bodies. Some women seem to want to marry a “bad boy” and then try to reform him. Yet they seem to be absolutely retarded as to how to go about reforming a husband. As though they’re going to defraud him into desiring their religion. Recognizing your husband’s priestly role over you will help you think right about how you should relate in prayer, and right thinking leads to right actions. Earnestly seek his prayers over you, confess your sins to him, and plead for him to intercede with God on your behalf. Put yourself under his spiritual covering, praying his prayers together with him, and then drag him under the bed covers for physical submission to your joint passions. See if he can be coaxed into that sort of spiritual leadership experience, and perhaps he’ll appreciate your sexually uniting religion, and his role in it more. Why is sex only ever used as a powerful tool of evil? Why not give yourself in such a way to make your husband captivated with you and your God? You’re were already naturally manipulating him with sex anyhow! It can’t be helped, that you serving your God’s intended purpose, of being a help and a mate to your husband is so powerful that you could pull him away from God, like Eve pulled Adam into sin. Why not reverse her curse inducing behavior and use your helping and mating to draw your husband further into his priestly role over you, by initiating gratuitous sex every time he answers your reverent call for him to rule over you, uniting under him spiritually and then frantically and immediately uniting physically. Trust me! He’ll figure it out, that you get horny for him when he leads you spiritually. Any normal man will respond well to that. May God bless your efforts.
I am not sure what Ms. Hobbs means by, “… and likely bolster statistics on divorce in the Christian church.”
one definition of bolster is: to give a boost to.
If people believe false views about divorce, they are more likely to foolishly blunder into them.
My brother was one of those 10% of divorced churchgoing men to have filed for the divorce, but even in his case, I mostly blame his wife. She had completely quit her marriage vows and had moved out before he divorced her as a defensive act. I say churchgoing, because, how I read the Bible, neither my selfish brother nor his selfish ex-wife, were ever inclined to do anything they didn’t want to do, not for God, not for anybody. His wife once claimed she had never ever seen him do anything that would lead her to believe he was a Christian. As his brother I can’t say I’ve ever seen a Christian act from him either, and our father had also said as much to me.
Funny thing is, that my brother is a good salesman, and all the churchgoers seemed to like that he was one of them, while they had their doubts about me, because I was too masculine, dominating, unconventional, and irreverent towards the religious garb they cloaked themselves in on Sunday mornings, when they lived lives largely devoid of conflict or challenging others due to their faith. I’d openly laugh at aspects of their failed churchianity in their own sleepy churches. People who believe the Bible and aren’t ashamed of it, aren’t going to fit in well with the churchians. And they aren’t prepared to deal with a man who doesn’t regard their whiny protestation that he’s not being nice enough. They’re faithless cowards who are ashamed of parts of God’s word. Their churches are Beta-factories churning out mental wimps. The gates of hell prevailed against them and kicked their ass and owned those losers! God abandoned those great whore worshiping pretenders. 2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
They’re faithless cowards who are ashamed of parts of God’s word. Their churches are Beta-factories churning out mental wimps. The gates of hell prevailed against them and kicked their ass and owned those losers! God abandoned those great whore worshiping pretenders. 2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
And we now see them getting their arses handed to them by Coronavirus- or rather, their fear of it. An illness less dangerous than the ordinary seasonal flu has them closing their doors at Caesar’s command (something else they have more fear of and respect for than they have for Jesus) and hiding like the sniveling, fear-controlled, faithless cowards that they are.
Of course they’re also too clueless and solipsistic (gosh, where does THAT trait come from? /sarc) to realize that the world sees their cowardice in action and continues to mock and despise them for it more than ever.
I find myself at odds with the cuckservative punditry who are flatulating outrage over Caesar’s orders for church closures. I’m of the opinion that the State is right: these “churches” are absolutely NON-ESSENTIAL operations. They’ve done NOTHING but prove themselves to supplicants to Caesar and adherents to pop culture, utterly failing at their God-ordained mission which, had they chosen to do what they were supposed to do, would have people openly defying Caesar’s edict in massive numbers.
Instead, most of these “churches” have completely and utterly abandoned their flocks (although I wonder how long it will be before self-centered pastorbators, choking on the neglect they’ve long visited upon most of their membership, start issuing desperate and sanctimonious reminders about maintaining tithes and offerings before disappearing back into their fear bunkers), and I predict that once this artificially manufactured crisis passes, newly awakened victims of their neglect won’t be coming back.
What we are about to see is, hopefully, the beginning of the end for churchianity. A very SMALL AND INSIGNIFICANT trial has been placed in its path, and it has failed it miserably. True believers, the remnant, will carry on with God’s work regardless of Caesar’s satanically-motivated fiats, just as they’ve always done throughout the history of the faith. They’ll pay a price for it in martyrdom again, as they’ve always done throughout history– but the world will absolutely know who they are, and they will have nothing in common whatsoever with the fraudulent churchian majority, who will have been completely converged by that point!
“A study of the large subset of those marriages where the wife had a college degree and the couple owned a home showed that 90% were initiated by women.”
I have not heard this statistic before, but I would be inclined to agree with it.
Educated women are more likely to be feminists who don’t believe in submission to their husbands. They’re also more likely to be able to earn a decent income independently and they probably work full-time and put any children they have into care. To these women, men are disposable. They don’t *need* a man. If he makes her life better, she’ll keep him but if he doesn’t, he can go, and she’s not usually going to have a lot of tolerance for a man who *isn’t* pleasing her. Happiness is her goal.
Today is my 18th wedding anniversary ???? It’s also the day my oldest son (2 weeks off 17) left home. Despite the difficulties my marriage has endured, I am so glad I have my man by my side today to comfort me as we get used to life with only 3 children in our home. Over the years, our 3 younger children will also leave home, and eventually, it will be just my husband and myself. I can’t think of anything worse than to be truly alone in my 50s and beyond (as my 4th child was born when I was 30, they will likely all be gone by the time I’m 50) because I considered my husband to be disposable.
Ace,
Is it just my imagination, or are you growing in your faith and your relationship with your husband too? It kind of sounds like you might be. If so, congratulations on that. I’ll say another prayer for you two.
Sharkly – Nope, not your imagination. This lockdown is working miracles for us ????
Ace,
I’m so glad to hear that! I had worried that if this downturn had a negative affect on your husband’s business, that you might hold that against him.
That was something I had unfortunately experienced with my wife. She badmouthed me horribly to my only investor once, and then got pissed at me after he immediately pulled out and left me without an income, and funding the business from my own savings and borrowing. Then when I got new investors and wouldn’t let her have any contact with them, she badmouthed me so bad to my business partners that they then tried to remove me from my own company, and she was trying to help them get me ousted, meanwhile, seeing the needless conflict, as I predicted our investors did a hostile liquidation of the business and turned my $5 Million of stock into zero overnight. And left me on the hook for debts, from which I am still not entirely clear. And of course then she badmouthed me as being “worse than an infidel” once I was without an income and without any savings, even though we were still living in a beautiful new lakeside mansion and I was still managing to provide my family with everything a family really needs.
Please don’t ever be like my wife was to me. I’d have likely committed suicide then, if I hadn’t been absolutely positive that she would raise my sons up to be sexually immoral and God spiting phony Christians like herself and every single member of her family, back as far as I know. And so far she is still on track to do just that. She hasn’t a speck of the fear of God.
Hello…new here…I’ve been following your articles for a while now so I decided to just follow u anyways(they are quite interesting). I am looking forward to giving my opinion on A LOT of things.
Sharkly – I don’t mean offence here, but your wife sounds like an absolute idiot. For the life of me, I can’t understand why any woman would want to intentionally sabotage her husband’s business. Maybe I just assume all women crave security the way I do, but I genuinely don’t understand what would motivate someone to destroy a successful business, and ensure she goes from a life of security, where she can live comfortably and without worrying about how she is going to feed and clothe her children, to not having that security. I don’t understand it at all. It makes literally no sense.
My husband and I are the only investors in our business, every single cent I have made has gone into it, along with every cent he made (including selling the car and motorbike he loved) – we made huge sacrifices so he could realise his dream. If I wasn’t willing to support him to make it successful, I wouldn’t have helped him right from the start. And this downturn now isn’t his fault – he’s legally not allowed to be open, and even before the lockdown, people weren’t out shopping much anyway. But, when this is all over, I will support him however I can in opening up his shop again, whether that is selling online from home initially, or in a new premises, or if the lockdown doesn’t go on too long and we can keep up the rent on the current place, simply opening up the doors again.
I will continue to pray for your sons. The time we have to influence them is so short. Regrettably, I didn’t realise the urgency, and thought I had all the time in the world to bring them to the Lord. I was wrong.
That was something I had unfortunately experienced with my wife. She badmouthed me horribly to my only investor once, and then got pissed at me after he immediately pulled out and left me without an income, and funding the business from my own savings and borrowing. Then when I got new investors and wouldn’t let her have any contact with them, she badmouthed me so bad to my business partners that they then tried to remove me from my own company, and she was trying to help them get me ousted, meanwhile, seeing the needless conflict, as I predicted our investors did a hostile liquidation of the business and turned my $5 Million of stock into zero overnight. And left me on the hook for debts, from which I am still not entirely clear. And of course then she badmouthed me as being “worse than an infidel” once I was without an income and without any savings, even though we were still living in a beautiful new lakeside mansion and I was still managing to provide my family with everything a family really needs.
Please don’t ever be like my wife was to me. I’d have likely committed suicide then, if I hadn’t been absolutely positive that she would raise my sons up to be sexually immoral and God spiting phony Christians like herself and every single member of her family, back as far as I know. And so far she is still on track to do just that. She hasn’t a speck of the fear of God.
as Ace said … that’s evil.
i hope you get to experience something different. i know there are a lot of bad ones out there, and the manosphere is replete with such stories, esp of the extreme, like yours. but … not all are bad.
Sharkly, my prayers for you and your sons are intensifying after reading your description of your wife’s acts of economic sabotage. Ace asked rhetorically how any woman could possibly do that to her husband, as it’s also an act of clear self-sabotage. I don’t have an answer to that question, but my first wife did the same thing to me throughout much of our marriage. I can only attribute it to a very severe form of mental illness, perhaps BPD/NPD. She had more issues than National Geographic, so looking for reason or logic in anything she did was pointless.
That said, you’ve pointed out one of men’s greatest collective fears, one affecting Christian and non-believer alike: Will my wife stand beside me and weather the storm of want and uncertainty with me when my means of provision are taken away and trials are all I face?
In times past church, community, and extended family stood by and supported a man struggling to find work and bread for his family. We know that today those traditional sources of support are mostly gone, leaving many (most?) men with the feeling that they are alone and that it’s them against the world. This would explain the high suicide rates among men over 40 who have suffered chronic unemployment and the inability to fulfill their provider role. This is also why I have always done anything and everything I can for my fellow men in this situation. even if it’s just being a sounding board, a shoulder to cry on, or a source of prayer. I’ve walked in those shoes, and am now about to walk in them again, so I know the feeling of fear, anxiety, and even desperation, my faith in God to provide notwithstanding. No man should EVER have to face the fear of abandonment by those he loves most when he faces what is often a soul-shredding trial.
I am blessed in that my current wife and I have endured so much together in the time God has blessed us with each other that no trials or obstacles that man or Satan create in this life will ever tear us apart. Each time we suffer adversity, we turn to the Word to remind us that God NEVER abandons those who love Him and seek His ways, and each time He has shown this in His own way and time.
May the Lord strengthen the marriage bonds of everyone here in these trying times we are facing. For those who are single, widowed, or wounded by a broken marriage, may God not only give you the strength to not just endure, but to move forward with joyful determination, knowing that He is in control and NEVER forsakes His children!
Welcome burnstaicho,
I look forward to hearing your input.
For the life of me, I can’t understand why any woman would want to intentionally sabotage her husband’s business.
Well, as a doubly evaluated sane person, I try to figure out sane explanations for her behavior, that might make sense to me. I think it is possible that in both situation that she was trying to gain control over me and to have me forced to do what she wanted, and was just a completely selfish fool. She might have been ignorant of how things might play out when dealing with sane people who, unlike her, were not committed to her goal of making me serve her agenda.
First off, to set this up, I will explain that my wife never cries legitimate tears.(due to her intimacy anorexia) She has refused to show that emotion legitimately in the 20 years I have known her. Every single time she has cried it has been selfish manipulation. When her grandparent died once, as she informed me, I saw her eyes glistening as tears welled up, so I took her in my arms and held her. She let me. For about 15 seconds. Then she shoved me away and claimed she couldn’t believe I would try to come on to her at such a time. Those few seconds, when her eyes betrayed her, are the closest she ever came to letting me see her express genuine sadness.
You might think poorly of me for saying this, but I wished she had a grandparent to die every day, so that I could get to hug my wife every day and perhaps catch glimpses of the real person living inside of her.
Other than that, she cried to convince me she was sorry for riding the cock carousel before she met me, and she has cried like a baby years ago during past marriage counselling sessions when portraying me as a meanie.
In the first instance my sole “angel” investor invited my wife and I over to have dinner with he and his wife. After dinner I went to talk with my investor in his study. When we returned to the living room, we found my wife balling her eyes out in front of his wife and sobbing, that I didn’t get up and go in to work early enough every day. She painted me as being a lazy-butt who just got up late. She failed to tell them that I am a night owl and that I was putting in over 12 hours a day at my business, and had an extremely responsible production manager who covered the mornings. She had previously been battling with me over my schedule. She wanted me to go in earlier and come home earlier to mind the kids for her, but I found it difficult to tear myself away from my business where I was respected, to go home to be ordered around like a dog in front of my sons. She was such a nasty disrespectful wife, that I preferred to come home late. As I drove up, I’d see her flip the lights off and when I came in she would pretend to be asleep. If I asked for sex she would then refuse and rage about how I had woke her up from her needed sleep just for sex. So I would leave her be. But if I came home earlier, she would treat me like shit the whole time, and still refuse to have sex. And I grew to hate coming home in time for any shared meal time, because she would constantly bark orders to me to help the kids, and then she would tell the kids what a bad father I was as I ate with them. Anyhow, my investor and his wife who had previously been enamored with me and my project, were suddenly against me, and it was agreed that he would call me at 6:00 AM every morning at the business to make sure I was there. He shortly broke off our deal, without ever putting another cent into the project. Of course if I ever bring up what my wife did, she claims I’m just trying to blame my failures on her.
However I plowed in my savings, and hocked my belongings, borrowed money, and skipped my mortgage payments to keep the business going until I had a private placement put together to solicit investment by selling stock in the business. After six months I had things mostly back on track. I also did not ever involve my wife in any further dealings with my new investors. Again I think my schedule became an excuse for my wife to hate me, and whereas she had tried to control me through my investors before, she now tried to oust me from being CEO of my own company, by plotting against me with my ambitious business partners who both stood to gain more control and prestige with me removed. I believe she was wanting to have me forced into a scheduled job working for somebody else. Anyhow, she badmouthed me so bad to my business partners, that one of them even tried to get me to try to get her to stop it, because it was demotivating to him. And in the end she was calling them and trying to get me ousted. When my partners tried to involve our investors, in their supplanting me, the investors worried the business couldn’t survive my removal and to quickly recoup part of their investment, that they themselves suddenly needed for their own businesses because of economic downturn, two of my investors who had our assets loosely collateralized, got in a race to see who could seize them first. I showed up to work one day to find the locks changed and a sign on the doors forbidding me access to the premises, by name. I had $150,000 of personal tools in there that I never got back, I never got paid my last 7 months of salary, Etc. Etc. And I even got stuck for unpaid payroll taxes. All this transpiring just after we had finally achieved profitability, and were looking forward to cashing out. Apparently it wasn’t God’s will that I be “self made”.
Sharkly, I keep seeing u trying to insinuate that your wife might “change”…I realize this is a common and (sorry to say) naive point of view most Christians have(I am a believer in God and his laws, but I’m not a Christian). A person who does all that stuff knows exactly what they are doing. They are not being “controlled” by some weird force that they will “magically” recover from…God himself says wicked people do exist…they are just wicked…nothing more, they can only pretend to be “saved” and “repented” but this is obviously to pursue particular interests they are eyeing at the moment, they can even do it to make themselves feel better about themselves…everyone thinks about the things they do, its not a “haphazard” or “heat of the moment” thing as the churchians would have u believe. And no they are not supposed to get off scot free because of “muh forgiveness”. This “he/she didnt mean it” attitude is one of the tactics Christians fall for when it comes to wicked people. And before u try to defend by saying “everyone is a sinner” I would like to remind u that there is in fact a scale…not all sins are the same, ur conscience knows this, God knows this…thats why according to His law, punishments for certain crimes are more severe than others. And it takes a special kind of person to cross a certain line when it comes to sin. Promiscuity IS one of those lines…some sins are committed by the most perverted and wickedest of people. God knows this too.
My point is, good people do good things….wicked people do wicked things. There is no “oh I was just confused at the moment”. Even if ur wife “apologizes” and comes back(from what i can see its what u are hoping)…I’m assuring u it is for selfish reasons…such people don’t just “change”…what were they doing in the first place…it takes a special kind of person to disrespect their conscience for not only that long but also to do what she did to u. And it is in this vulnerable state of urs that the devil will also whisper its own lies to make u think that there is nothing wrong with this person.
burnstaicho,
I agree that there are different levels of sin, and that God is just, and is able to assign a just penalty to fit the degree of our crimes.
John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
People who say that because all sin is wrong, and any sin will separate us from God, then all sin must be the same, are just foolish and ignorant of God’s justice. And that kind of foolish belief leads to foolish living. If all sins are the same, then why not commit all the biggest ones? I also agree that sexual sins void and make a mockery of God’s institution of Marriage. Which is why God’s law had most sexual sins punishable by death. God did not ask for us to endure adulterous people and their devastating effect on society’s morals. We are not to be deceived that they are redeemed. Adultery is not the act of a redeemed God follower. All people are naturally selfish and self preserving, which is why Capitalism is so effective. Yes, I understand that if my wife comes back, it will most likely be for selfish reasons. And in fact I am trying to increase the selfish reasons for her to return, knowing that she will not make a selfless choice.
I do understand that it would take a great miracle of repentance for her to become a good wife. And that the chances of that are quite small, and that I have been sacrificing a lot to keep that tiny chance alive, on behalf of my sons, and a testimony of offering Christlike redemption. Intimacy Anorexia is an addiction, or bondage, and it is quite treatable.(the treatment is basically a plan of repentance) However the battle is to get her into treatment for her addiction, to returning evil for good, that she does not want to quit.(They don’t genuinely encourage women to repent in churches, so I’ll be paying big money for a psychologist to tell her how to turn from her destructive ways, if I can get her to see him.) You are right that God does not forgive the unrepentant, nor does he necessarily remove the damage from our sins. And yes my wife and those who back her evildoing operate on lies and excuses. So, I think I basically agree with you on everything. But, nevertheless I’m making the seemingly foolish choice to sacrifice greatly in hope of a miracle, because I think that is what God wants me to do, whether a miracle of repentance happens or whether it just costs me even greater loss. Her eternal destiny is on the line, and I’m fighting for it. I can’t make her repent, but I’ll keep presenting the choice and warning her of her impending damnation. I already tried all the “nice” churchian methods for well over a decade, and they only led to things degenerating to where we are now.
Speaking of shaming, I was just shopping at Walmart, and as a man passed by one of the aisles he loudly called out “Cho-Mo!” down the aisle. I couldn’t see who was down the aisle, nor was I certain whether the man was an angry father trying to shame a child-molester, trying to warn others about a child-molester, or whether he was just a joker, perhaps trying to embarrass a buddy from work.
Speaking of shaming, I was just shopping at Walmart
An infuriating experience nowadays for anyone with an above-freezer-temperature IQ. Although never a recruiting ground for Mensa, and full of “entertainment” even in normal times, Coronascam has turned local Walmart Supercenters everywhere into real-life incarnations of Idiocracy.
Sharkly – Thanks for linking your thoughts on 1 Peter 3:7 to SF’s post the other day. I was mulling over the idea of God not hearing a husband’s prayers earlier and had a thought having to do with how this concept might relate to God’s authority structure. Specifically, what Jesus explains to Peter when Peter asks about how many times he should forgive in Matthew 18. Jesus tells Peter he should forgive more than humanly imaginable and then tells the parable of the debtors to explain the kingdom of God.
God is obviously the king that forgives the massive debt. I’d say that in the marriage relationship, with the wife being put under her husband’s authority by God, the husband is the servant whose massive debt was forgiven and the wife parallels the one who owes little. Living in an understanding way with our wives would be much like forgiving the much smaller debt owed to us. Ignoring the size and scope of God’s grace to us and then arrogantly refusing to apply that same kindness to those under our authority is what so angers the king.
When we come back to 1 Peter 3, it very well could be that, just as God recognizes our infirmities and has patience with us, we are to recognize our wives as the weaker vessel and have patience with them. Not doing so, would make us hypocrites as we expect to be shown grace ourselves. In the parable the heart of the man the king forgave was not transformed by the grace shown to him, and Jesus then tells us that the Father will reject us also if we do the same. In no way would this concept limit husband’s authority over their wives, but it would serve to instruct husbands how to live since we are under God’s authority.
Just to elaborate upon what Red Pill Apostle has mentioned from Matthew 18, part of that is also made a bit clearer by the Apostle Luke in Luke 17.
Luke 17:3(KJV) Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Where the King James Version says “repent” other versions say, reform, do penance, repents and changes, change their hearts and lives, is sorry and stops sinning. The Greek word is μετανοέω and literally means a change of thinking and purpose.
God does not forgive the unrepentant, nor should we presume to outdo God. To forgive the unrepentant is to give license to their sinning.
As an example: I wish the problems in my marriage had been as easy as forgiving the repentant. Unfortunately, to this day my wife is not repentant.
Proverbs 30:20(NLV) This is the way of a woman who is not faithful in marriage: She eats and washes her mouth, and says, “I have done no wrong.”
Proverbs 30:20 is a verse that I think has been bowdlerized. the word “eats” can be more literally translated “takes it in” and the word “mouth” literally means “opening” as in: the “mouth” of a cave. So the verse could rightly be translated as, “Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she takes it in then cleans out her opening and says, I have done no wickedness.” That would make more sense, since there really wouldn’t be anything morally wrong with eating and wiping your mouth afterwards.
Anyhow, the point is that most faithless wives truly aren’t repentant of their infidelities, they’re just sad when they are made to face consequences. And unless they truly are repentant they can’t truly be forgiven, but only given license or not.
It is correct to rebuke wives for their offense, and if they do not repent the Biblical earnings of unrepentant sinners is punishment. You can’t restore a person into a right relation with you while they are still committed to sinning against you.
In Matthew 18, the other party was repentant.
Matthew 18:29 His fellow servant threw himself facedown at his feet and begged, “Please be patient with me. If you’ll just give me time, I will repay you all that is owed.”
To this day my wife shows zero remorse for her sins against me. She literally thinks she has done no wrong. Nor does she think her nasty divorce is wrong to me or to our children. Her church cheers her on and tells her it is really for the best for everyone. And yes, as directed by the Bible, I’ve rebuked them too, and their whoring church is in no way repentant either. They’ve ingested Satan’s ideological seed and make no apologies but instead give birth to more sin.